Saturday, 21 May 2011

Vassula Ryden and TLIG (contd)

There are more documents to be published, and I will do this in the next few days. They are very interesting and I believe some of those who criticise Vassula and accuse her of heresy and other things, will be surprised. I have always believed that much of the criticism (I say much, not all) of Vassula is simply unjust. Others criticise and accuse out of ignorance (although that can also be injustice when people simply refuse to look at the whole picture). There have been serious concerns with elements of the messages but this was due to misunderstanding and misinterpretation. As we know, when Vassula's answers to the Vatican Notifications were completed, Cardinal Ratzinger was pleased with them. He said, "She has answered very well". He then asked that these answers be published in her books, thus signalling that it was alright to read the books (and the messages should be read in the light of her answers - as should the Notifications). In the end, the truth is its own defence, and as more of the truth is revealed I believe some people, at least, will begin to adjust their thinking even if it only results in greater tolerance towards those they do not understand.


  1. The overriding message I have always received from Vassula, whenever I have listened to her, is God's call for Christians to unite, first individually, uniting our will to God's, on a daily and intimate basis (difficult enough in itself for me somedays with my easily distracted and deceived heart!) and then allowing Him to unite us with each other. I may be simplifying things too much by saying that, but that is my understanding so far. I do not see any heresy in this.

  2. You write:

    "I believe some people, at least, will begin to adjust their thinking even if it only results in greater tolerance towards those they do not understand".

    It is possible that this is the most we can expect.

    A little research into the literature on the subject increases tolerance but, more specifically, science and observation,the use of modern technology can prove intriguing changes occur in those we describe as mystics.
    A person involved in "automatic writing" is in a dissociated state. The personality expressed is different from that of the writer and that person truly believes this.
    Literature dating from the late 19th century has examined multiple personality states. These are not fraudulent. In one case the person was diabetic in normal life but when in a different personality was not. The altered state changed physiology.
    The SPR asks not who is communicating but what.
    The material communicated is for theologians to debate.
    The reality of the phenomenon is not in question.

    With respect may I suggest that concentrating on accepted mystics, describing them, enlightening others is the way to proceed and let not your heart be troubled in your loyalty to Vasulla.
    She will be in no doubt that she is not involved in these messages, only as a physical mechanism for their dissemination.
    More on (deceased) mystics on your blog will be excellent.

    Incidentally, a comment of mine to a critical priest's blog suggesting that if Vasulla looked less like Madonna and more like Lucia dos Santos she might have had an easier time. It was not displayed! If this offends you feel free to delete.

    Kind Regards

  3. Jocelyn,

    I am not at all offended by this, but you need to know that the writing of Vassula has been examined by one of Europe's leading experts in this field (automatic writing etc). He said that the writing is not demonic and as regards her mental health, a psychologist of my acquaintance said she was probably the sanest person he ever met. Theories of one kind or another are never exhaustive. In any case, as you are no doubt aware, St. Teresa of Avila wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit - to such an extent that there were hardly any full-stops etc. Others have written in what some would call "automatic writing". Vassula's has been judged already by the expert I mentioned to be something else. It is certainly not from her own mind. If you had read her writings you would understand this; there is no possible way that such things as are written there could have come purely from her own mind - but you need to read her writings to see this.

    As to posts about other mystics, I am happy to do that, but since I believe Vassula's writings are important I cannot treat them at the level of curiosity or simple spiritual/psychological study.

  4. Thank you.
    As you probably gathered from my incorrect spelling of Vassula's name I am not a student of the writings or her mystical experience.
    My purpose in writing was to affirm the phenomenon rationally for those who might jump to question its authenticity.
    In writing of "what" is communicating rather than "who" the notion of "demonic" is not in my vocabulary.
    I speak from a neuro-scientific perspective.

    If you recall, the apparitions of the Blessed Virgin Mary took different forms even in one location eg Fatima.
    As I see it we are dealing with what we can conceive of as a sense of "Maryness" as understood by the human mind, not some specific changing entity, an essence (if that does not sound too Gnostic or Platonic).
    So it is with the "What" as against the "Who" is communicating.
    Put theologically (and I am no biblical scholar) it is the Creator who communicates in a way recognisable and acceptable to the recipient.

    C.G Jung felt this element was so important that he even thought in terms of a Quaternity. He would certainly have supported the Co-redemptorix dogma.

    This is not something I would discuss with my parish priest and it is research I undertook some years ago.

    I say again with confidence Vassula will be completely sincere in her experiences of the dissociative state.
    I wrote to re-assure your readers on that point.

    I deal with these issues now by accepting the advice of my postgrad. theology tutor to just accept these things as mystery. Very hard for one who knows these experiences are real and wants to know how its done!
    Please feel free to discard this comment.
    It's bound to tread on the toes of those who deal with mystery by shouting "heresy"!

  5. No Jocelyn, this does not offend me. I know that theories like this are being accepted by many people. However, there is other evidence from such events that does not fit in with this psycho/spiritual theory. I would be very happy to discuss it in some other thread or on my other blog which I set up to allow for longer posts.

  6. Criticism is not an argument. It is an illusion presented to the human mind as an argument, but is nothing more than the smoke of Satan.

    Criticising for example the churches behaviour regarding the handling of abuse in the Church is never an argument that disproves the Church to be the true one Church.

    Criticising the writings of Jesus to Vassula is not an argument that disproves the writings, but it is damaging enough and can pull many souls away from God, thus we put ourselves at high risk of suppressing the Spirit and blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.

    So I'm looking forward to these documents that you speak of that will blow away this critical smoke. But I highly doubt the poor need to read them, they just believe and are happy, after all thats who the messages are for, the poor, the limp the lame and the blind. We are all poor limp, lame and blind, but how many of us admit to that?

    Yours In TLIG


  7. Is there any truth in this?
    Photos included online.


    Children of Medjugorje, May 2011 Newsletter PDF Print E-mail
    English Newsletter - English 2011

    The Sun Danced. A Portuguese friend went to Fatima for the great celebrations of May 13, the anniversary of the 1st appearance of Mary in 1917. But this year, Fatima also celebrated the Beatification of John Paul II.
    Giant screens were used to transmit the images of the Beatification, and 20,000 pilgrims were gathered close to the basilica.
    Our friend told us that at about 1:30PM, when the images of John Paul II appeared on the screens, a very broad luminous circle formed suddenly around the sun, it was like an arc in the sky which projected rays of all colors. The sun started to dance in the sky as if joining the celebration.
    The media of Portugal broadcasted this same information.
    As we know, John Paul II was very linked to Fatima! Following the attempted assassination of May 13, 1981, he always attributed his protection to Our Lady of Fatima. “A hand shot, he said, a maternal hand guided the bullet's path”. Did the pope of Totus Tuus (totally yours Mary) want to give us a sign?"

  8. I must own up to seeing the sun do strange things in different places. One of the strangest was on the way back home with a hermit (sister) friend of mine after we had been involved in a TLIG retreat in Walsingham. As we were driving north she said, "look at the sun". I didn't because I was driving, but also because I tend to play these things down. I tend to think of faith as the most important thing, not signs, so I was not enthusiastic at all. However, I stopped the car and we got out to go and have a cup of tea. There was no doubting what I saw - the sun spinning. It must have been about 4.00 pm.

    Later we heard that an Anglican couple who had taken part in that retreat also saw the sun spinning as they traveled south. We only knew about this some time afterwards.

    There was an occurrence in England a couple of years ago. It was photographed but there was nothing on the news and someone who researched the phenomenon through the Royal Observatory was told it was a freak of the weather. This was not true and it did not appear on ANY weather news bulletins. The sun was surrounded by a halo and those who saw it were able to look directly at the sun. I did not see it - I was away - but my housekeeper saw it as did a man over 40 minutes drive away. I seem to remember that it was near a feast of Our Lady.

    And - yes - I also saw the sun at Medjugorje. This time there was a white disc over it, like a host. I was not ecstatic or anything. This vision was there until sundown, and I remember walking into the church in the evening thinking to myself, that is happening over there but I am not in the least excited about it.

    Usually, these events are not recorded by any scientific observation. The October miracle of the sun in 1917 was not recorded as an observable event, yet something real happened. How do we know this? One simple fact is enough. The 13th October 1917 was the wettest day that year. The trenches at the front (1st world war etc) filled with water. At the Cova Da Iria in Fatima the ground was waterlogged and people were soaked to the skin. After the miracle of the sun, the ground was bone dry and so were all the people.THAT is an observable fact.
    I have no hesitation in believing the account about the recent events in Fatima.

  9. These are really interesting posts Father. I have also sent off for Teresa Higginson and am going to try and obtain the book I read first about her from Halifax St Mary's. I have never heard of Vassala, and as I am presently up to the eyes in Vat 11 by Michael Davies, have only had time to glance at her situation. I would absolutely love to get a group together--is anyone interested, for the discussion of these matters. Frankly I cannot find anywhere where interesting Church "things" are discussed, under proper guideance so it doesn't go off into the wrong direction, into heresy!!!!. I am always researching such matters, as well as doing Old Testament study which is important in order to understand the Gospel, but no-one seems remotely interested. So I am very encouraged to read your blog, Father,


  10. Thank you for your reply to my query.
    Quite remarkable.
    I read of an interview with a person who witnessed the event from a balcony forty miles from Fatima.
    I will research the Portuguese press to see if there is anymore information.
    You are fortunate indeed to have seen these things.

  11. Richard over at Linen on the hedgrow blog has a post up aobout the latest alleged apparition in the sun. Apparently a priest friend of his witnessed it.

    Good stuff!